Having actually (struggled to) script several of these, I like the 4-panel opportunity, too.
author: *** Dave H.
url: https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/6483260
*** Dave H. said:
Having actually (struggled to) script several of these, I like the 4-panel opportunity, too.
Your basic three panel strip consists of:
- Setup
- Joke
- Punchline
You can also think of this as the three act structure: setup, conflict, resolution.
The four panel can follow that structure with the inserting “Beat” or “Stretch the Joke” in between “Joke” and “Punchline.” However, you can also follow an entirely different structure as well:
- Introduction
- Misdirection
- False Punchline
- Real Punchline
See Bill’s Charlotte/Summer comic for that particular structure. It’s a little different from the previous structure because it’s possible to fit two separate punchlines into it: the first with the “misdirection” panel and the second in the “real punchline” panel.
You can also use this beat to change things up significantly using this structure:
- Setup
- Follow-up
- Tangential Aside
- Back to the Original Setup.
For instance:
- Adam approaches Alycia.
- Adam: Welcome to the team, Alycia!
- Alycia: Thank you. This is a bit unexpected.
- Second panel.
- Adam: Of course. It’s important to know we’re watching each other’s backs.
- Third panel. Alycia watching through a rifle’s scope from a sniper’s nest.
- Caption: Several weeks ago…
- Fourth Panel. Back with the original setup.
- Alycia: Yes. Of course.
It’s not a great example, but it definitely shows some of benefits of the versatility of the four panel structure. Sure you could do this example with the three panel setup, but it loses something in that you’re only in that “original setup” at the beginning and the end. Without proper setup, the middle panel can sometimes read as non sequitur rather than a progression.
And there is like four paragraphs off the top of my head about structure in comics. I might have a problem.
author: Mike
url: Community Forums: Comics By Request | Roll20: Online virtual tabletop
Mike said:
And there is like four paragraphs off the top of my head about structure in comics. I might have a problem.
Knowing useful and interesting stuff doesn’t sound like a problem to me 
author: Bill G.
url: Community Forums: Comics By Request | Roll20: Online virtual tabletop
Actually, that’s a fine and amusing example. 
author: *** Dave H.
url: https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/6483436
Bill did a number of the comics from stuff I suggested, usually with significant improvements. E.g.,
Panel 1. ALYCIA: (pointing accusingly at JASON) You turned into a tyrant in the future. An evil mad scientist!
Panel 2. ALYCIA: I saw it Jason. In the future! I saw it!
Panel 3. (ALYCIA glares. JASON looks hangdog.)
Panel 4.
ALYCIA: (smiling) Also, I GOT TO GO TO THE FUTURE!
JASON: (still hangdog) Aw, man …
Bill adapted that pretty closely, with the additional niftyness of Animated Happy Alycia. Though I still kind of like the idea of Jason’s remorse over his future tyranny turning into sulking that she got to go into the future and he didn’t.
This second is, I think, what inspired the spiffy Harry+Chip-Prism comic (Bill did say he took a lot of liberties):
Panel 1.
HARRY: Hey, Jason!
JASON (sitting) : Hey Harry! Warehouse 3.
HARRY: Thanks!
Panel 2.
JASON (sitting)
Panel 3.
HARRY (now on Jason’s other side, holding a large bag/box): Thanks again, Jason!
JASON: Nice seeing you, Harry.
Panel 4.
HARRY: You know, you don’t have to buy all the chips in Halcyon just to get me to visit.
JASON: It’s good to have money.
I also believe the “Dammit Jason!” curse jar stems from this gag:
Panel 1. Phone ringing.
Panel 2. Jason (picks up): Hello?
Panel 3. Voice from phone: DAMMIT, JASON! (click)
Panel 4. Jason to the viewer (fourth wall): That happens a lot more often than you might think
Alycia and Charlotte’s encounter, as scripted in mild self-mockery of Alycia’s melodramatic cutscenes:
Panel 1. Alycia (to Charlotte): The ghosts of my past haunt me.
Panel 2. Alycia (to Charlotte): They haunt me!
Panel 3. (Silence. Charlotte looks at Alycia, who’s covering her face in her hands.)
Panel 4.
Charlotte: Actually, they say you’re a nice kid, just a little stressed - -
Alycia: HAUNT ME!
I do like the “emo-globin” line.
Finally, the Alycia and the Newmans strip, where Bill much improved my punchline.
(All ALYCIA to SUMMER)
Panel 1. So I talked with you, and you were nice.
Panel 2. Then I talked to Leo and he was clueless.
Panel 3. Then I talked to Aria, and she was compassionate.
Panel 4. You guys make it really tough to maintain a terrified paranoia.
So now you see that little bit of the creative process, too.
Again, many thanks to Bill for keeping us delightfully “pacified” whilst Doyce was recovering.
author: *** Dave H.
url: https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/6484162
Sometimes the revolution forces us to make sacrifices.
author: Bill G.
url: https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/6484395
HA!
And “Chai Guevara” is worth a guffaw in and of itself.
The original:
Panel 1.
SUMMER: Welcome to Blintzkrieg, Alycia! Glad you are back! What can I get you?
ALYCIA: I’m on a budget. What … do you have any coupons for?
Panel 2.
SUMMER: I have a BOGO on Cinnalattes. How many would you like?
ALYCIA: Death before Cinnalatte.
Panel 3.
(silence. Alycia glares. Summer continues to smile.)
Panel 4.
SUMMER: I also have one for half off a Chia Chai.
ALYCIA: I’ll take two Cinnalattes.
This one was partially inspired by James and I standing at the drink cooler at Whole Foods and mistaking Chia drinks (ugh) for Chai drinks (yum).
author: *** Dave H.
url: https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/6484458
I don’t have the vocabulary to articulate it like Mike did, but here’s the way I think about four-panel or other comic comedy: it’s basically like those martial arts sparring sessions. There’s an attacker, there’s a defender, and they’re going to trade moves. They position, the attacker goes in, then a few different things can happen (defender blocks & counterattacks; attacker delivers and follows up; etc.). Either way, it’s an interaction of forces in a few decisive motions that ends in a way that clearly signals an outcome.
I wouldn’t call my strips “improvements” over Dave’s original pitches; whether one is better or not is subjective. I consider mine “punchier” (in the sense I just gave). Rather than just moments in time or peeks into a conversation, they’re meant to be exchanges that tilt a larger implied situation in another direction. So with that:
Animated Happy Alycia: It’s hard to explain why Jason’s looking hangdog without dialogue, since my facial expressions library is limited by the program, but I’d consider him to be upset about her seeing the future.
Pink Floyd Tribute: I wanted to show Harry’s chip thing in a sort of glorifying way, representing it as a larger than life thing, and that album cover qualified to me. Jason’s gotten plenty of screen time and I thought he could use a break.
Dammit Jason: I wanted the essence of the joke but without breaking the fourth wall, so an interview did the trick. The swear jar is just the usual metaphor for that sort of thing. Glad it was well received.
Alycia Melodrama: I thought deflating Alycia with a pun would be a good Charlotte response, as well as the spooky matter-of-fact “yes you’re haunted” that the original had.
Alycia & the Newmans: I liked the punchline, but it sounded too self-conscious for where Alycia is at the moment, so I thought she ought to take the situation at (her idea of) face value. Of COURSE it’s a conspiracy, it’s just a shit one.
Chai Guevara: I didn’t understand the Chia/Chai reference (never heard of Chia drinks, though I do go to Whole Foods), so I went with something I did know: horrible puns.
author: Bill G.
url: https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/6484478
Bill G. said:
I don’t have the vocabulary to articulate it like Mike did, but here’s the way I think about four-panel or other comic comedy: it’s basically like those martial arts sparring sessions. There’s an attacker, there’s a defender, and they’re going to trade moves. They position, the attacker goes in, then a few different things can happen (defender blocks & counterattacks; attacker delivers and follows up; etc.). Either way, it’s an interaction of forces in a few decisive motions that ends in a way that clearly signals an outcome.
It’s definitely a good method of approaching it (and you’ve got the proof right here too).
And my vocabulary is mostly in part from studying from those who’ve come before. And a lot of money spent at supermarket comic racks as a child.
author: Mike
url: Community Forums: Comics By Request | Roll20: Online virtual tabletop
Here’s an animation test. Linked rather than embedded due to size: https://i.imgur.com/npDtGDr.gif
I created this from 24 frames in Comipo, hand placed and positioned, then used ImageMagick to animate the frames:
convert -delay 20 -loop 0 Summer-Animation_*.png summer.gif
My kingdom for some kind of tween frame creation tool. I’m assuming After Effects or something probably has one…
author: Bill G.
url: https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/6485108
Summer is the most emotionally expressive character in my toolkit, so she was an easy choice for this. But I’m not fully happy with the outcome. If you guys feel like helping me fine-tune this, I could use a couple suggestions or opinions (technical or otherwise).
- Technical: is After Effects and its interpolation tools enough to do what I want, which is to smooth out the animation? Is there a better/different tool?
- What do you think is going on? What is she feeling in these few moments?
- Is this animation style interesting, and worth playing around with further?
I’ve found some very interesting 3D tools that work with SteamVR, like Mindshow (https://mindshow.com/), but Comipo has made it easy to snap characters together and pose them in typical ways. I really wish there was a mashup of all of these tools that’d just let me do everything I want. I might have to write it…
author: Bill G.
url: https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/6485996
1. I don’t know if there are better tools. I think what you used served its purpose for the demo clip.
2. Happy Summer goes to the beach, enjoying it. Oh, she sees the viewer! Hi! This makes her happier, and she waves a greeting, then walks on her way, even happier than before because someone else she knows is also enjoying the beach (because this is Summer), along with a bit of a “see you later, I’m going to go get some ice cream!” to her attitude, too.
3. I don’t know that animation adds that much that it’s worth going to heroic efforts to do so (says the guy who’s spent gobs of time in Plotagon, so pay no attention to me). It is fun, and as a spot effect has something to recommend it, but I’d rather see five static comics to one animated one, if that makes sense.
author: *** Dave H.
url: https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/6486097
That’s all fair It actually doesn’t take much effort to create a couple seconds of animation - once I have a few key poses, I can copy-paste and fiddle with the interstitial poses. But yeah, it can be limiting. No good dialogue options, for example. It feels like the eyecatch for a show, though, and that makes me feel like we’re just a little closer to being a “real” series.
author: Bill G.
url: https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/6486350
To answer for AfterEffects, it does not have the functionality you’re looking for. It does have some tweening effects, it’s mostly just for its own effects not for imported graphics. In fact I don’t think anything is going to do what you’re looking for _well or _automatically. You’re actually into one of the most costly and time consuming parts of animation and why a lot of cheaper projects use 2d puppets (seventh image down on this article) or 3d models with a toon shader (which is the route I think Comipo uses, you just don’t have access to the model files) to add some cost effectiveness to tweening animations.
Sorry if that’s a bit of a downer.
author: Mike
url: https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/6486447
Mike said:
Sorry if that’s a bit of a downer.
Nope, that was actually pretty helpful. It points me in a couple alternate directions - like Kinect mocap for really customized posing. Looking at my options, it seems like building something around Unity (which includes toon shader assets, a really solid SteamVR connection, and a few other useful tools) would be interesting. My ideal tool would let me snap characters together a la ComiPo or HeroMaker, then pose or animate them smoothly.
Jason has his “Dammit Jason” jar. I should put a jar on my desk, and put $1 in every time I read “easily create (games/animation/whatever) without needing to program!” I need “easily create (whatever) without needing to draw!”
author: Bill G.
url: Community Forums: Comics By Request | Roll20: Online virtual tabletop
Bill G. said:
It feels like the eyecatch for a show, though, and that makes me feel like we’re just a little closer to being a “real” series.
Indeed!
author: *** Dave H.
url: Community Forums: Comics By Request | Roll20: Online virtual tabletop
Bill G. said:
Jason has his “Dammit Jason” jar. I should put a jar on my desk, and put $1 in every time I read “easily create (games/animation/whatever) without needing to program!” I need “easily create (whatever) without needing to draw!”
Yeah, there’s a reason I gave up on animation and went into IT part way through college.
author: Mike
url: Community Forums: Comics By Request | Roll20: Online virtual tabletop
Inspired by Mike’s amazing picture here.
Aria might be a tad bit tsundere.
author: Bill G.
url: https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/6494030