MENAGERIE #57 - "FOR JUST ONE MINUTE"

Bill G. said:

I’m also interested in a related point. As I originally defined it, Excalibur isn’t a moral barometer for ‘goodness’ or ‘niceness’. Skinner is an asshole but he’s still slinging steel. Instead, it’s a weapon for the worthy, ‘worthy’ being defined as ‘someone ready and willing to be king’. That means fighting, conquering, defending, and ruling.

I tried to play Leo as a morally upstanding and hot-blooded character, but I don’t think he could lift the sword because he wouldn’t want to rule. Summer, for all her positive qualities, shouldn’t be able to budge it for similar reasons, plus she’d prefer to end fights peacefully, and the sword has no place in her life. So with all that said, I’m curious how much (if at all) Alycia - daughter of a conqueror, still clearly willing to use those impulses and training, clearly regretting the outcomes of a lot of that - could lift the sword. I’ll leave that to you two to figure out, if it ever comes up. :slight_smile: But I loved this scene, and I’m always down for scenes mixing powers and friendship.

Ah, probably my favorite scene from that movie.

I was wondering what the qualifications for “worthy” were and knew they couldn’t be your standard D&D paladin lawful good-ness for the reasons given, but I had not thought about it in those terms either. Very interested to see how Alycia and William interact now.

author: Mike
url: Community Forums: MENAGERIE #57 - "FOR JUST ONE MINUTE" | Roll20: Online virtual tabletop

Part of playing the character will be defining what worthy means, all I can do is make suggestions.

author: Bill G.
url: https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/6925043

Mike said:

While I know Alycia’s probably wanting some stability on her social life, I figured she’s appreciate having someone who (save for a magic sword) operates fairly similar to her (in a broad sense, at least). Looking forward to see how that shakes out in game.

Someone willing to throw down and fight for a worthy cause, to protect the innocent, to do what’s right?

They may very well get along famously. Or …

Alycia’s intel on the Grail Knights is fairly sketchy (presumably they and Chin didn’t directly conflict much … at least so far as she knows, heh). Between creepy romanticism for a bygone ahistoric era and its autocratic authority, and tying themselves by name to either Christian or pre-Christian Celtic mysticism, her initial reactions aren’t very positive, esp. since she took Lucius’ behavior as pre-emptive and Very Annoying Adult in nature. Throw in a lot of skepticism about self-proclaimed agents of a (corrupt) order and about organized religion (whether or not the Knights see themselves a religious order), and she is likely to need winning over.

(Which is not to say that it’s William’s job to do so.)

I sort of see the Grail Knights as similar to the Wardens of the White Council in the Dresden Files – agents of the magical order, preserving the Laws of Magic against anyone who breaks them in any way. There are nice, friendly, engaging Wardens, and there are sons of bitches who take satisfaction in lopping off the heads of teenagers who inadvertently violated one of the Laws.

So with all that said, I’m curious how much (if at all) Alycia - daughter of a conqueror, still clearly willing to use those impulses and training, clearly regretting the outcomes of a lot of that - could lift the sword. I’ll leave that to you two to figure out, if it ever comes up. :slight_smile:

From a meta standpoint, my guess is she could – but she would never do so just to prove she could. It would be one of those Alycia dives for where William dropped the sword, nabs it without thinking, then whips around to stab the dragon / toss it to William / throw through the image of Doctor Infinity things that happens without any consideration in advance.

(Of that quartet of qualifies – fighting, conquering, defending, and ruling – does Alycia want to rule? Of course she does. She’s just frightened by the prospect, of the corruption of power, and hasn’t figured out how leadership – rule – can strike the balance between coaching to wisdom and directing objections, how to use both soft and hard influence. Her examples of “rule” are mainly horror shows of tyranny, greed, and corruption

That spin on what Excalibur does / demands is an interesting twist on things, though. Does that Need to Lead ultimately go to a Highlander-style there can be only One gathering of the shards to decide the Once and Future King?

But I loved this scene, and I’m always down for scenes mixing powers and friendship.

Oh, I dearly love it – for the evolution of expressions on Thor’s face, if nothing else.

author: *** Dave H.
url: Community Forums: MENAGERIE #57 - "FOR JUST ONE MINUTE" | Roll20: Online virtual tabletop

*** Dave H. said:

That spin on what Excalibur does / demands is an interesting twist on things, though. Does that Need to Lead ultimately go to a Highlander-style there can be only One gathering of the shards to decide the Once and Future King?

Mike gets to decide what the truth is, but at the time of writing, my version went like this:

The sword enforces the principle that “the land and the king are one”, and its power is to trade strength between the two. A strong king can heal a hurt land (this is why it’s a useful instrument in Charlotte’s work). The land can absorb hurt from its king, letting (for example) the wielder parry bullets at a personal cost. But it says nothing about the number of kings, the distribution of rulership, or anything else. Kings can rule together, be peers, cooperate - or fight. Those are decisions for mortals to make. The sword will simply abandon anyone who becomes unworthy.

Alycia Chin might recognize something like “the Mandate of Heaven” at work here.

author: Bill G.
url: Community Forums: MENAGERIE #57 - "FOR JUST ONE MINUTE" | Roll20: Online virtual tabletop

Having written a novel where the Mandate of Heaven explicitly plays a role, I’m familiar with it, certainly. Alycia would have an academic familiarity, at the very least.

On consideration, Achilles might actually use it as a metaphor as to how unworthy rulers are rightfully removed from power – not to satisfy any metaphysical Celestial Court, but in service of humanity.

All that said, it’s certainly another area where Alycia and William could find common ground.

author: *** Dave H.
url: https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/6925780

Much like how Bill invites the Greek Chorus for Summer’s worries and thoughts, I’m all for suggestions towards thoughts that I haven’t really decided on yet (certainly helps with the play to find out aspect). Most of my current understanding of Excalibur, the Grail Knights, what it means to be worthy, and Armiger are based on what Bill’s written, my own interpretation of those writings, this scene from Excalibur, and some of Thor and his interactions with Mjolnir. Far from a complete idea, but certainly a starting point I can work out from as story and drama requires.

author: Mike
url: https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/6925821

Oh, the movie Excalibur is so full of stuff to harvest …

author: *** Dave H.
url: https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/6925944