# Phase Two Endgame - POLL/FEEDBACK!
**URL:** https://forum.menagerie.team/t/phase-two-endgame-poll-feedback/1125
**Category:** Menagerie Phase 2
**Created:** [July 8, 2022, 12:32am UTC](https://forum.menagerie.team/t/phase-two-endgame-poll-feedback/1125 "2022-07-08T00:32:31Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@garrett](https://forum.menagerie.team/u/garrett)
#### Post date: [July 8, 2022, 12:32am UTC](https://forum.menagerie.team/t/phase-two-endgame-poll-feedback/1125/1 "2022-07-08T00:32:32Z")
So here it is. We’ve got three big events that will be winding together:
- Doctor Infinity and the time war
- The Invisible Invasion from Atlantis
- Pyrrhus’s Master Plan
Everyone will be involved. I know where things will be going, and I hope to have a few surprises and heartwarming moments and all that. But what about some of the details?
I’d like folks to contribute ideas, suggestions, or opinions on the following:
### Pyrrhus
I want a suitably villainous name for him. Right now his themes are “spiders, automatons, eternal conflict, paradox, domination, nihilism”. He is a mastermind, a manipulator, an unsteady fusion of four different minds into a coherent (but not consistent) whole. I’m looking at names like:
- The Spider King
- Arachnus Ascendant
- The Ashen Emperor
What do we think, based on what we’ve seen of him so far?
### Jenny Byrne
Jenny will also need some kind of catchy name. By default, “Poppet” works fine. But assuming she survives…
- Do we think she’ll be on the side of the heroes, the villains, or her own side?
- Is she compelling as her own character? Does she lack something?
### Sidorov and TALOS
The genius inventor usually works at the top of their particular food chain, but Aleksei Sidorov is a subversion of that. Still, the imperious cyborg deserves his own name, doesn’t he?
…Unfortunately I don’t have any great ideas here, but if someone else does, let me know.
* * *
As I work on other stories, I’ll ask more questions on this thread.
---
### Author:  [@insomn14](https://forum.menagerie.team/u/insomn14)
#### Post date: [July 8, 2022, 1:54am UTC](https://forum.menagerie.team/t/phase-two-endgame-poll-feedback/1125/2 "2022-07-08T01:54:53Z")
> [@garrett](#):
>
> ### Pyrrhus
I would want to steer away from the Ashen Emperor for purely selfish reasons (with the renamed Dread Queen being the Azure Empress, having two characters with an Emperor title could cause confusion for our peripheral audience).
The other names are good and could work, but allow me to present an alternate line of thought…
> **Pyrrhus** : (mid-fight, in a dominate position) Don’t you see, those people merely need direction. Control! I am **Control**!
* * *
> [@garrett](#):
>
> ### Jenny Byrne
Poppet is a good one. Puts a face to the Poppet system and allows for referencing a character when explaining the concept when it shows up latter (assuming Phase 3).
> [@garrett](#):
>
> - Do we think she’ll be on the side of the heroes, the villains, or her own side?
> - Is she compelling as her own character? Does she lack something?
I like her. She’s interesting and has some internal conflict (“Once a weapon is fired at its one and only target, does it cease to be a weapon?”).
As for what side she could end up on, if Pyrrhus is the Spider, I feel like she could be the Fly in the Ointment (which is to say, a highly motivated and interested third-party between him and our heroes).
* * *
> [@garrett](#):
>
> ### Sidorov and TALOS
I think Doctor Sidorov is a fine name for the character (although perhaps with an epitaph, like the Sinister Doctor Sidorov) because Sidorov is fairly unique name (at least from what I’m used to). If Marvel’s Dr. Zola can just be Dr. Zola when when his most notable trait is having a TV for a face, I think Dr. Sidorov can just be Dr. Sidorov.
---
### Author:  [@garrett](https://forum.menagerie.team/u/garrett)
#### Post date: [July 8, 2022, 5:41am UTC](https://forum.menagerie.team/t/phase-two-endgame-poll-feedback/1125/3 "2022-07-08T05:41:22Z")
> [@insomn14](#):
>
> Control
My only worry there is that I immediately think about “Get Smart” and other stuff. But on the other hand, “control vs. chaos” is at the center of Pyrrhus’ paradox.
The cheesy option, because he’s a composite of four personalities, is a name like Fourthought, but I am hoping for something more grandiose.
---
### Author:  [@Dave](https://forum.menagerie.team/u/Dave)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2022, 8:31pm UTC](https://forum.menagerie.team/t/phase-two-endgame-poll-feedback/1125/4 "2022-07-09T20:31:42Z")
Responding before I read Mike’s notes.
> [@garrett](#):
>
> Pyrrhus
And “Pyrrhus” isn’t a suitably villainous name?
Of the three choices offered, I shy away from the spider stuff, but because Arachnos was the City of Villains main bad guy org.
I like “The Ashen Emperor,” though the nanobots are more less ashen than black, which made me think of embers, and something like “The Ember King,” which pulls in some phoenix sorts of associations as well.
But I think “Pyrrhus” also works. It has a “Pyrrhic Victory” association, but also the Funeral Pyre, which gets back to embers and &c. Also has a sort of “Peerless” sound to it, which would also tickle his fancy.
> [@garrett](#):
>
> Jenny Byrne
I’m also not convinced Jenny Byrne needs a fancy name. But if so, Poppet, as a beloved child _or_ a voodoo doll both work in creepy ways.
> [@garrett](#):
>
> Sidorov and TALOS
I’m sure Sidorov _thinks_ he deserves a fancy name. I think there is a vein of humor available in his selecting more and more dangerous / threatening / pompous names over time, even as his superiors / opponents / lackies out of earshot keep calling him Sidorov. Or worse.
---
### Author:  [@garrett](https://forum.menagerie.team/u/garrett)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2022, 9:06pm UTC](https://forum.menagerie.team/t/phase-two-endgame-poll-feedback/1125/5 "2022-07-09T21:06:20Z")
So what I’m hearing is I nailed it first time
Go me 😁
---
### Author:  [@Dave](https://forum.menagerie.team/u/Dave)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2022, 9:33pm UTC](https://forum.menagerie.team/t/phase-two-endgame-poll-feedback/1125/6 "2022-07-09T21:33:43Z")
Oh, there was more than name stuff. 🤪
re **Jenny**
> [@garrett](#):
>
> - Do we think she’ll be on the side of the heroes, the villains, or her own side?
> - Is she compelling as her own character? Does she lack something?
I feel little ownership of the character since she was a backstory figure with no dialog, as I recall. So speaking just from my impression of what we’ve seen …
… she’s been fine, but not compelling. She kind of orbits around “annoying opponent who causes the protagonist problems, but more heartburn than existential dread”. The Irish Lilt is a bit grating, too, if only because it doesn’t feel authentic, in part because she’s not “authentic” because she’s a force-growth clone.
I feel like there’s really some tragedy and drama there, around her background, her indoctrination / programming, her sense of (in)humanity. I think, she could jump in any direction, but I feel like her arc really is pointing her toward ending up on her own side – with a lot of sympathy from Jason, disdain from Alycia(s), jealousy all around, and plenty of room for future appearance.
---
### Author:  [@Dave](https://forum.menagerie.team/u/Dave)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2022, 9:38pm UTC](https://forum.menagerie.team/t/phase-two-endgame-poll-feedback/1125/7 "2022-07-09T21:38:55Z")
> [@insomn14](#):
>
> I think Doctor Sidorov is a fine name for the character (although perhaps with an epitaph, like the Sinister Doctor Sidorov) because Sidorov is fairly unique name (at least from what I’m used to). If Marvel’s Dr. Zola can just be Dr. Zola when when his most notable trait is having a TV for a face, I think Dr. Sidorov can just be Dr. Sidorov
To riff off of my other idea, those epithets could also suffer from escalation as time goes on.
> “There are those who called me Sinister …”
> “Um, didn’t you call yourself that, Boss?”
> “Silence!! But I am more than just Sinister. Henceforth, the world will tremble at the thought of the Splendiferous Doctor Sidorov!”
> “Um, Boss, how do you spell --”
> “SILENCE!”
Does Zola actually use “Doctor?” I think he usually ends up (post-self-operative days) with a full first-last. “That face … in the computer consoles … Arnim Zola!” But your point remains valid.
---
### Author:  [@garrett](https://forum.menagerie.team/u/garrett)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2022, 9:50pm UTC](https://forum.menagerie.team/t/phase-two-endgame-poll-feedback/1125/8 "2022-07-09T21:50:02Z")
> [@Dave](#):
>
> with a lot of sympathy from Jason, disdain from Alycia(s), jealousy all around, and plenty of room for future appearance
That’s exactly what I wrote her to become, so that’s gratifying. She’s also trolling/teasing Jason with the Irish accent at this point, it’s not an always-on thing.
So Pyrrhus, Poppet, and Doctor Sidorov it is. Thanks folks 🙂
---
### Author:  [@garrett](https://forum.menagerie.team/u/garrett)
#### Post date: [July 22, 2022, 11:37pm UTC](https://forum.menagerie.team/t/phase-two-endgame-poll-feedback/1125/9 "2022-07-22T23:37:53Z")
Next up, three questions for @Dave
- who is Alycia’s mother?
- does she know and/or care?
- do _you_ care?
---
### Author:  [@insomn14](https://forum.menagerie.team/u/insomn14)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2022, 2:33am UTC](https://forum.menagerie.team/t/phase-two-endgame-poll-feedback/1125/10 "2022-07-23T02:33:45Z")
While I know the question was directed to Dave, [I know this bit of fiction exists which concerns Alycia’s parentage](https://forum.menagerie.team/t/51-9-heiress-apparent/592/8), which partially answers that second question.
---
### Author:  [@garrett](https://forum.menagerie.team/u/garrett)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2022, 6:39pm UTC](https://forum.menagerie.team/t/phase-two-endgame-poll-feedback/1125/11 "2022-07-23T18:39:12Z")
And now the questions for @insomn14
- under what circumstances did Adam acquire his original Concordance shard?
- why was it considered inferior or defective?
---
### Author:  [@insomn14](https://forum.menagerie.team/u/insomn14)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2022, 7:41pm UTC](https://forum.menagerie.team/t/phase-two-endgame-poll-feedback/1125/12 "2022-07-23T19:41:17Z")
> [@garrett](#):
>
> under what circumstances did Adam acquire his original Concordance shard?
_(oh cool, I have art to help answer this question)_
So when Solaris first came to Earth, they needed a host. Adam was just the first acceptable host he ran into. It was in the middle of the night, so Adam was asleep when Sol offered him the power. Adam, being partially asleep and thinking it was a dream didn’t really think any of this through. And then he had an energy being burrow into his soul and there’s not really any mistaking that for a dream.
The rest of this is just broad strokes story bits that I have noodled on a bit. The reason the Concordance sent Sol to Earth was due to some enemies of the Concordance coming to Earth and the Concordance needed a local champion to fend them off. Once Adam was empowered, those aliens kidnapped him (and his parents saw that part, which is what I imagine soured Mama Amari on anything having to do with superhero-stuff going forward).
Once in the alien ship, Sol teaches Adam the basics of being a Concordance agent on an escape from the ship. Somewhere along the way, the aliens do something to disrupt Sol (which is why he is broken during the first quarter of the Menagerie game) and Adam has to disrupt the aliens’ plans on his own. (That’s about all I got, I’ve only thought this through enough to make three pictures.)
> [@garrett](#):
>
> why was it considered inferior or defective?
So the Concordance keeps sending shards to Earth and they _keep_ disappearing. Concord’s is Solaris Gamma-Two and the Trio’s is Solaris Game-Four, which also leaves One and Three unaccounted for. [After this bit of fiction](https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/6341375/masks-37-dot-1-the-dread-moor-cutscene/), I like to think the Dread Moor has one of them captured somehow. And Sablestar is likely involved in the other one (or possibly both) going missing.
And with the Concordance’s usual smug superiority, it cannot be their fault this keeps happening, it must be something about Earth. So after not hearing back from the first three, they stopped sending Shards to Earth until they got Sol’s destruction signal, which led to them sending SG4 to Earth to investigate. That’s also why they split SG4 between three different people to try and add a bit more protection this time.
So because when SG4 met Concord, it had to be the inferiority of that shard’s manufacture or malice on the part of Adam that could lead to its destruction and giving its power to Adam. Concordance shards don’t _go native_ and sacrifice themselves for the good of their chosen world, they are eternal guardians who must be preserved for the ongoing continuity of the power of the Virtues.
So short answer: Concordance lies and propaganda.
---
### Author:  [@garrett](https://forum.menagerie.team/u/garrett)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2022, 9:35pm UTC](https://forum.menagerie.team/t/phase-two-endgame-poll-feedback/1125/13 "2022-07-23T21:35:09Z")
> [@insomn14](#):
>
> first acceptable host
What makes a host acceptable?
---
### Author:  [@insomn14](https://forum.menagerie.team/u/insomn14)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2022, 9:43pm UTC](https://forum.menagerie.team/t/phase-two-endgame-poll-feedback/1125/14 "2022-07-23T21:43:17Z")
> [@garrett](#):
>
> What makes a host acceptable?
Hearts imbued with high levels of the Virtues, with minimal amounts of interfering emotions (fear, dishonesty, and hate). For this reason, younger (and more naïve) hosts are preferable.
---
### Author:  [@Dave](https://forum.menagerie.team/u/Dave)
#### Post date: [July 25, 2022, 4:20am UTC](https://forum.menagerie.team/t/phase-two-endgame-poll-feedback/1125/15 "2022-07-25T04:20:33Z")
> [@garrett](#):
>
> who is Alycia’s mother?
I always left this unanswered, to leave some mystery (about both her and Achilles), and a plot element to establish by whomever could come up with something spiffy.
It’s one of the few things (as the reference Mike found indicates) that Achilles ever expressed any regret about.
My vague sense was that she was someone Achilles truly thought he loved, and, at some point, realized it was either her or the Great Mission, and chose the latter. (Did she leave him, after an ultimatum? Did he send her away – keeping the kid – when he decided she was too much of a distraction, too much of a weakness, too great a temptation to compromise? Did she have to die because she was visiting her Mom in Bhopal when that particular Great Mission event happened? The tragic story possibilities are practically endless.)
It all begs the question of what sort of person would get so close to Achilles Chin / Achilles Chin allow to get so close. A brilliant mind? An innocent?
> [@garrett](#):
>
> does she know and/or care?
Alycia is curious, certainly – but she’s forcibly separated herself, emotionally, from being “child of her parent” enough that it isn’t an obsession for her.
Of course, emotional calm can be suddenly shattered by an abruptly changed circumstance. If she were to suddenly come face to face with someone claiming to be her mother … she would be incredibly guarded, but would absolutely have major questions for her.
> [@garrett](#):
>
> do _you_ care?
As implied above, I care, but I don’t have a commitment to any particular answer. Indeed, a really interesting answer that up-ends the above narrative would also be cool.
Ultimately, I left those details blank (even to myself) for a reason, and with the understanding that they would quite possibly be filled in by someone else. If the answer remains a mystery, or is answered with something interesting and fun that informs or even evolves the character, that’s all good.
(I might have something to say about the Achilles Chin / Hecate slash-fic, though.)
---
### Author:  [@garrett](https://forum.menagerie.team/u/garrett)
#### Post date: [July 25, 2022, 4:52am UTC](https://forum.menagerie.team/t/phase-two-endgame-poll-feedback/1125/16 "2022-07-25T04:52:24Z")
> [@Dave](#):
>
> A brilliant mind? An innocent?
An Antibody? 😃
> [@Dave](#):
>
> As implied above, I care, but I don’t have a commitment to any particular answer. Indeed, a really interesting answer that up-ends the above narrative would also be cool.
I am cooking something up that I hope you’ll enjoy. Based on this, I’ll move forward with it!
---
### Author:  [@Dave](https://forum.menagerie.team/u/Dave)
#### Post date: [July 25, 2022, 5:00am UTC](https://forum.menagerie.team/t/phase-two-endgame-poll-feedback/1125/17 "2022-07-25T05:00:12Z")
Or … maybe I got the different sides of the equation wrong …
(Achilles: “If the Great Mission never succeeds, I will have been a failure in life. But by stopping her, I have had one success for humanity that I can carry to my grave.”)
---
### Author:  [@garrett](https://forum.menagerie.team/u/garrett)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2022, 9:55am UTC](https://forum.menagerie.team/t/phase-two-endgame-poll-feedback/1125/18 "2022-11-24T09:55:35Z")
With Phase 2 wrapping up, and Phase 3 starting probably in a couple months, I want to see what @Dave and @insomn14 think about carrying over some of our P2 supporting cast.
Aside from villains, which of the following people would you like to see more of?
_Poll ([view on site](https://forum.menagerie.team/t/phase-two-endgame-poll-feedback/1125/18))_
---
### Author:  [@insomn14](https://forum.menagerie.team/u/insomn14)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2022, 7:22pm UTC](https://forum.menagerie.team/t/phase-two-endgame-poll-feedback/1125/19 "2022-11-24T19:22:20Z")
My Other vote is for Dr. Sidorov, but mostly for the lolz.
---
### Author:  [@garrett](https://forum.menagerie.team/u/garrett)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2022, 7:39pm UTC](https://forum.menagerie.team/t/phase-two-endgame-poll-feedback/1125/20 "2022-11-24T19:39:39Z")
He’s a villain so definitely will be appearing 👍
[Next page](https://forum.menagerie.team/t/phase-two-endgame-poll-feedback/1125.md?page=2)