Side note: Sif didn’t do the island dropping personally, and is in fact kind of the reason it happened where it wouldn’t hurt anyone (stupid orc patrols getting splatted). Probably they don’t even know about that, though most wouldn’t much care.
Sif’s honor code always tends to boil down to “who is owed payment-in-kind most? Who is owed biggest.” That answer has been the Overlord for a really long time, if it becomes necessary to figure out which obligation trumps which.
So, on balance, if a decision is forced, she chooses the overlord, but prefers to avoid “lesser” debts (good or bad) at all[1], which means your ‘force them off the field while they think about what they’ve done’ still works.
She also prefers to balance debts whenever she can, if it doesn’t mess with a higher priority. She likes her ledger clean, is what I’m saying.[2]↩︎
I need to read James’s write-up on his people and flesh this out or tweak it.[3]↩︎
I’d had a good scene where I intimidated some bandits into joining the group and was looking forward to Wynn, Ann, and others getting their similar moments.
Maybe there’s a useful thing to start doing: sort of a ‘in broad terms, whatcha looking for out of tonight?’ check in. Then I know “by doing these other guys, I’m actually giving Bill what he’s looking for, so we’re good.”
To be fair, every parent of a school-age child I know looks like a frantic mess right now so the fact you still put any effort towards gaming is commendable.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but the day of the game doesn’t affect me in the slightest (although I’m also probably the one with the fewest commitments). And I think we’re probably engaged on the forum in the middle of the week is because the game just occurred and so we’ve got new things to talk about and ponder. If the game happened on Friday, the weekends would probably be the time of most engagement on the forums.
I think there is a distinction here. In the case of the Masks game, Iconoclast was clearly the aggressor, bringing the fight to the Menagerie. They busted up Tasha Starr’s studio, and so we were defending ourselves and the surrounding bystanders.
Here, we ran into folks with 2/5 similar backgrounds to the Fellowship, seemingly holding back a band of bandits through their sheer badassness while they gassed up their magical doodads. Like we the players knew they were generals of the Overlord because you told us and our characters knew who they were personally, but did we have reason to start a fight? Did our characters know that they were part of the Overlord’s entourage. I wasn’t throwing the first punch there.
Going back to last week when the scene with Siflay and Ecki started, I kind of assumed that it was going to be something where we found out some details on the Overlord’s plans and then they would leave, didn’t think it was supposed to be a fight.
Not to be that guy, but this sounds like conflict with stakes (“There’s a cave troll, it wants to kill you.”) and a way to engage with that conflict (“Kill it back.”) clearly defined.
While not the only answer, I could imagine something like the following crystallizing some stakes.
Carabas, having just stolen the teleporter thingy from Ecki, shows it off. Ecki, in a fit of rage shouts, “Give that back, you thieving halfling! I need that to report back to Mistress Tenebrios…” and then pauses realizing what he’s said.
Rowan, knowing the legend of High Magister Tenebrios and his idea that they are behind recent events, shouts an accusation, “You are working for Tenebrios? You’re behind the falling sky island?!”
And then all the Fellowships’ eyes lock on Ecki with various amounts of contempt…
We now know we can get answers from these two about the Overlord. Also, it adds the stakes “can we subdue them before they can escape with their teleporting thingies (not calling them anything else).” I can already imagine something like the last two Avenger movies where everyone is trying their damnedest not to let either of them grab the teleporting thingies and blip away.
So, this hardly identifies all issues, but I will admit that my assumption going in was that you knew Ekki was working for the Overlord, in character. Like: you know the list of harbingers who sided with her, and Ekki is prominently on the list.
So… yeah. The scenes you’re describing would be where I thought we’d start, at least as far as that goes.
More calling for directed command lore or whatever. “Tell me about the conversation where you found out Ekki was aligned with the Overlord.” Useful. Ugh.
Yeah, this might have been my biggest disconnect. I figured with the Overlord’s Mythical status, any idea of who their minions were would be guesswork on our part. If it’s more concrete than that, then I’ve been working under mistaken assumptions.
I’m going to tackle the “Dave” bits first. I have more to say, but just to get them out of the way.
It’s happened a couple of times with Carabas, and I’m not sure if it’s I’m not being assertive enough as a player (a drawback to being distracted by taking notes, and sometimes other things) or if Carabas feels like less essential of a character (nobody feels compelled to hear what Merry and Pippin have to say when Aragorn, Gandalf, and Legolas are chatting), or what. I do agree that the spotlight shifts have been difficult so far.
That said, don’t take any of the above too seriously. I got my moment, and in a sense it made even more sense (if to less effect) by waiting for the Siflay/Wynn/Rowan/Ann drama to conclude.
Carabas had a number of motivations here. One was to tweak the arrogant bastard (knowing that he’s an arrogant bastard). One was outright terror of going up against Siflay, but needing to do something, and since everyone was focused on her (except Rowan, who clearly indicated be could handle the banditos), he’d focus on him. One was the possibility of getting some info out of Ecki that would help us learn more about Siflay (which turned out to be moot, but it still worked out reasonably).
(And now it occurs to me, assuming I don’t inadvertently teleport into the sun or something, that another successful Keep Busy / Sting Like A Bee might very well see me running around, with the gem, and dragging Ecki out of the scene. Which might simplify things for the team, be stunningly heroic, and etc. We will see.)
Any way, that’s the directly “Dave” bits. Let me read other replies, then opine further.
Y’know, that’s not a half-bad idea. Or even (and this reminds me out of other systems) "whatcha looking for out of this scene?"
“I want to show how spooky and tormented I am.”
“I want to prove my wit and pretence at courage.”
“I want to keep everyone safe.”
“I want to impress Wynn.”
“I want to wipe that smirk off of Ecki’s face.”
“I want to feel like I’m making progress in stopping this horrifying plot, whatever it is.”
“I want to get the folk doing something useful.”
“I want to slap down as many of the brigands as I can, because that sounds like fun tonight.”
Etc.
Not all of it may come to pass, and some things may be very character driven and others very “my energy level is high/low/fluctuating tonight,” but even if things don’t get directly addressed, they’ve been voiced and heard.
Whereas I figured we knew at least the basics (thus knowing their moves/rules). Some of us might know more than others but … well, everyone knows a bit about Saruman, even if Gandalf (and maybe Aragorn) know more details (and possibly different ones) than, say, Gimli or Frodo.
Indeed, something to think about for future general encounters (er, encounters with generals) is that we might have met them before. Remember, we are mid-Fellowship, or at least long enough into it to have shared some adventures, some intel, had a few encounters, etc. We’re the LotR Fellowship coming up on Moria (everyone has been introduced to the Ringwraiths who didn’t know them, everyone’s heard of Saruman’s treachery, but different folk aren’t sure of what lurks in Khazad-dum or, for that matter, in Lorien).
Okay, a few general thoughts, as much dialog has already gone over most of what I would say.
I offer this as an observation, not a blaming, Doyce. I think you’ve been concerned about / trying to compensate for stuff (your problems with the system, your worries about whether people are having a good time and are engaged, whatever), that we’ve not only had spotlight problems, but you’ve been too eagerly pushing forward ideas / answers to what happens next beyond the scope of how the other players should be writing the world / scenario / characters. Mike touched on an aspect of this (his feeling like being talked over), but there have been more moments than that.
I do firmly believe it’s not a matter of your disregard for what folk want, or disrespect, but creative enthusiasm and eagerness to help. I think this also ties into your worries about people not seeming engaged with the scene.
I know the hardest thing for a creative person is to sit back and let other folk think of something, and suggestions can always be offered, but … something, maybe, to remember.
(And, in turn, as the players and collaborators in the story, we need to also (a) be ready to pick up those creative reins when handed over, and (b) be responsible to say, “No, that doesn’t seem right to me, here’s what I think my character would do / what my people are like / what happened last time I at a poisoned fig.”)
While you say you don’t want reassurance, I will say that I think the games described have had high points and low points but mostly the former and, hey, we’re all still here. I could offer critiques of each of those campaigns, but fingers would be pointing in all directions, including at myself. There’s no such thing as a complaint-free activity of this sort (and if there were no unhappy PMs of any sorts, that would be probably an even bigger sign of problems).
I was happy with aspects of all those campaigns, too … some more than others, but that’s what makes a horse race. And the low point, S&V, largely came down to a system that wasn’t fun, not characters that weren’t (or, instead, a system that didn’t let us have as much fun with the characters as we felt we should be.) That we all stuck with it without voicing concerns we were feeling is a lesson learned.
And, for that matter, without ignoring the rocky bits, don’t get too down on yesterday. Even if we got a bit too enmeshed in discussing the rules …
… there were a lot of good moments – I enjoyed my turn with Carabas, I loved the Wynn action, and Ann’s bond-based intervention (and our decision to “heal” Wynn). Various factors, in and out of control, constrained our time so we didn’t have opportunities for Rowan or Virens, but I have faith they are coming.
I agree with Mike’s comment on Mondays vs any other day of the week.
Wholeheartedly agreed with Dave’s points, especially this one. While I am busy to the point where an extra couple of hours a week sounds mighty tempting, I would not want them at the expense of getting to play with you guys every week.
I don’t feel this way, and I hope nobody else does. I feel like Carabas drags his sub-genre or tone behind him, the way others do, and whether he has profoundly wise or arcane things to say, he can say things nobody else can as well.
Okay. Sounds like we’re good to continue the game on Monday (presuming my voice holds out - it started going Monday night for no reason I can figure out).
I also would like to say how I appreciate how when presented with a situation where things aren’t working we all talked reasonably and openly about the issue and looked for ways to change things that worked for everyone.
I don’t know about other folks, but I know I have stories about times where this same sort of situation would have led to no one talking until it all turned into resentment, bad feelings, and broken friendships among the group because talking about feelings and situations is hard to do. Thanks for being wonderful people.
As you know I don’t get to the boards often, but wanted to say a couple of things.
I think that we are all engaged with our character and the fellowship setting. It is fun being the one to narrate your people’s history and motivations. I think you can see that in how much thought everyone has put into their Lore.
Spotlight - In the game they has specific recommendations about a visual indicator of who is in the spotlight. In PTA you know if you are the A plot or the C plot in any given scene. Maybe we need to be more explicit about who is in the spotlight and allow/encourage people to ask for the spotlight when they have a scene they want to get to.
In trying to make sure everyone had something to do, I think that you limited what each of us could do. It is all based in good intentions, but to be blunt, the story structure of Fellowship means that we are co-creators and not characters in your world. You/we wanted Ann to have a bond based interaction, so you created/forced the scene. In my view that could easily been instigated by Ann and feel more organic and in character rather than a forced choice. You stepped on Wynn’s lore in describing the tower and the oath of their people. You were disappointed when character didn’t act the way you expected rather than letting them own their stories and actions.
