Menagerie Card Help

insomn14 · November 22, 2022, 8:42pm

So let’s talk Nemeses. If I haven’t brought it up before, Nemesis is a simple mechanic in Sentinels where two share a Nemesis Symbol (the little circular logo symbol on the cards) have a permanent +1 damage bonus, showing their ongoing enmity towards one another. It’s usually pretty minor and easily forgotten when playing physically, but it means a lot to folks who follow the lore of the characters.

So far I’ve designated a few villain characters as nemeses (as shown below) but going forward I want to be mindful of who I mark as nemeses and why.

Existing Nemeses

Ego Trip (mini-nemesis): Radiance
Fractal (mini-nemesis): Concord
Netherwarden: Ghost Girl
Unmute: Mercury

Mini-nemesis is a term from the fandom for any target who isn’t a villain character but has a nemesis symbol. Basically anyone who is a part of another deck (for instance, Ego Trip and Fractal are a part of Unmute’s deck). Also Ego Trip, had I been confident that I would make decks for the Newmen as I am now, would have probably been their nemesis instead of Radiance (but I’ll get into the issue with nemeses for Radiance later).

With this in mind, I looked forward to my upcoming decks and tried to determine who would be nemeses for our existing heroes.

Future Planned Nemeses

The Azure Empress: Jason Quill, Ghost Girl, Concord, Mercury, and the Newmen
The Concordant Trio: Concord
Clockwork: Ghost Girl, Radiance, and the Newmen
Devon Crowninshield (mini-nemesis): Ghost Girl
Director Quill: Jason Quill, Charade, and the Newmen
Grasscutter One: Charade
Hannibal Lectric: Jason Quill, Ghost Girl, Concord, Mercury, and the Newmen
Hecete: Radiance and the Newmen
Poppet/Jenny Byrne: Jason Quill
Pyrrhus: Jason Quill, Charade, Agent 1337, Hot Mess, Nono, and SNOWMAN
Rossum the Minion-Maker (mini-nemesis): Radiance and the Newmen
Rumble Bee (mini-nemesis): Mercury
The Yule Cat/The Jólakötturinn: Jason Quill, Ghost Girl, Concord, Mercury, and the Newmen

As you probably noticed, a lot of these have multiple nemeses which is something I can do (And have been mindful of, since there are limits when making the decks in Digital. Pyrrhus hits the limit for max amount of nemeses for a Villain character, while environment targets like Rumble Bee and Devon can only have one.) but I’ve been wondering if I should. So far I feel like all of these relationships are justified but it definitely feels less special than when you can point at a villain like Unmute and say “yes, Mercury’s nemesis.”

The characters I most feel like I’m shorting however are Radiance and the Newmen. Those characters are so intertwined that it feels weird to have a character be a nemesis of one and not the others. That said, if I were to have Commander Saito or Mina Onnanoko are nemeses, it definitely makes sense for them to specifically be the nemeses of the Newmen and not Radiance. While this is a solvable problem (especially when including expanded lore characters like Rumble Bee, who exist because “of course a character like that would exist”) but one that has been on my mind as I’ve been planning these decks out.

Thoughts?

Also, some quick asides that I’m sure will be asked.

Yes, I am planning on making a Hecete villain. And it’s going to be zany.

The current plan is for Grasscutter One, Hannibal, Hecete, and Poppet to be Vengeance Villains (the mechanics and differences I believe I’ve gone over before). They’ll be joined by a Dr. Sidrov deck, who I’m considering not have been anyone’s nemesis. “No one is worthy enough to rival Sidrov” seems on brand for that guy.

Rossum is going to be a mini-nemesis in the Tyran/Rook villain deck. The Rosa stand-in is another person I’m considering for “doesn’t have a nemesis” status, but I can be swayed toward her just being Jason’s nemesis or having her be the Menagerie as a whole, or maybe just Jason and the Newmen.

If I continue my plan, Concord’s going to have most nemeses (Fractal, the Sablestar stand-in, the Concordant Trio, plus all the Menagerie-wide nemeses) which I’m worried is something I’ve subconsciously done since I’m making the decks. Or it could be because I was super happy to make a rogues gallery for Concord.

I’m planning on having all three Newmen decks (Link, Pneuma, and Otto) share a nemesis symbol. I’ve also got some plans for making their decks unique from the rest of the Menagerie heroes, but that is another long post so I’ll get to that as I get closer to working on their decks.

garrett · November 22, 2022, 8:55pm

So my Radiance Reinvention project will start in earnest around Phase 3. This will give her more independence, a new (small) rogue’s gallery, and some other stuff. Unfortunately I don’t have concrete plans to give you here (unless you want P3 spoilers - let me know). It’s going to happen, it’s just not happening yet.

Leo, to everyone’s great surprise, doesn’t really go out and pick fights. Rossum is basically the only person he feels personally about. He definitely shares that sentiment with Otto and Aria (and Summer, but she tends to be more forgiving).

insomn14 · November 22, 2022, 9:58pm

Exciting!

Never, except for the offers I’ve already made of getting some character concept art made ahead of time.

Certainly fair. It definitely would feel wrong if Rossum did not make an appearance as Leo’s nemesis (and because of the shenanigans involved with his storyline, he’s going to be in two different decks ).

One thing that I will note is that I have an environment tentatively up on the board just called “Prison Break” that would involve a mass escape of villains from AEGIS custody that’s just a big excuse for include minor characters like Professor Midnight and the All-Nighters and originally Hannibal Lectric, though the pivot to have him as a Vengeance Villain has changed that. Similarly, this was also an excuse to include cards for Parker, Waters, and Agent 1337, but given that Alex is currently slated for a hero deck, they’re also off the list for that. So there’s definitely room for expanded lore villains for folks. I’ve long been amused with the idea of an actual Fairy Princess that has it out for Radiance and might try to wedge them in here.

insomn14 · November 26, 2022, 8:02am

So with Challenger Park all wrapped up, that brings us half way through what I had planned for the core set of Menagerie of the Multiverse. As a recap, that set has the following:

Charade (hero deck) [done]
Concord (hero deck)
Ghost Girl (hero deck) [done]
Mercury (hero deck)
Radiance (hero deck) [done]
Netherwarden (villain deck) [art in progress]
The Concordant Trio (villain deck)
Unmute (villain deck) [done]
Challenger Park (environment deck) [done]
Oakland Cemetery (environment deck)
Saint Lucia Medical Center (environment deck)
Stanley Sports Center (environment deck) [done]

My current internal debate is “do I try to make all of the future sets 12 cards?” Surprisingly, that works out for the MIA/Agents of AEGIS set I have in mind, which currently slated for:

Agent 1337 (hero deck)
Hot Mess/Agent M (hero deck)
Nono Rodriguez/Agent R (hero deck)
SNOWMAN (hero deck)
Pyrrhus (villain deck)
Grasscutter One (vengeance villain deck)
Hannibal Lectric (vengeance villain deck)
Hecete (vengeance villain deck)
Poppet (vengeance villain deck)
Sidorov and TALOS (vengeance villain deck)
The Stronghold/Prison Break (environment deck)
The Hidden Fortress/Secret Chin Base (environment deck)

That said, MIA isn’t my current plan for a next set. That’s Tech Support, which includes the rest of the Menagerie not included in the base set. But Tech Support only has 11 decks currently.

Jason Quill (hero deck)
Link (hero deck)
Otto (hero deck)
Pneuma (hero deck)
The Azure Empire (villain deck)
Clockwork (villain deck)
Director Quill/Quillverse Jason (villain deck)
The Tyran Corporation/Tyran High Tension Thinkers Group (villain deck)
Quill Foundation Corporate Campus/Quill Tower (environment deck)
Quillverse Halcyon (environment deck)
The Sepiaverse (environment deck)

Currently, Tech Support is looking fairly villain heavy with four villain decks (as opposed to the core set’s three) which makes me think if I do add another deck to bring it up to twelve it should be an environment. And when I look at this list and what I have from the other sets, perhaps that theoretical environment should be something Azure Empire/Vyrotovia-themed. Option one there is to do the Flying Island as a single environment. The other is to have one of the Empire’s floating islands. Alternatively, I should say that the Sepiaverse deck is the Azure Empire environment (I mean, they did come from there) so I could do something else if the mood takes me.

Not sure. Thoughts? And not just on this last question but on the schedule overall?

garrett · November 26, 2022, 4:23pm

My suggestion for the environment deck is a Vyortovian (etc.) weapons/vehicles factory and testing ground, set up on the icy mountain. It’s not canonical but feels very Sentinels-y and in keeping with the Tech Support theme. Battles atop prototype hover-ships. Dodging automatic laser turrets. Freezing temperatures and cold metal. Explosive fuel canisters. Exotic magitek weapons.

The overall schedule sounds great to me, I’m looking forward to seeing what comes out of all this.

insomn14 · December 4, 2022, 6:34pm

So yeah, Space Bug is definitely coming to my Sentinel decks soon after Concord does. And as a hero at that.

I may have been working on this for a little bit as a treat.

insomn14 · January 10, 2023, 9:55am

After getting to peak at Bill’s well done Notion site for his Phase Three plans, I really enjoyed how much cover images added to the experience, so I overhauled my setup to use them too. This actually helps me out a bit, knowing where some of my gaps are.

insomn14 · January 20, 2023, 6:38am

So last time I talked about future sets and I think I’ve fallen into the decision of “whatever feels right is what it should be.” Not an exciting answer, but an answer.

So let’s talk about something that is exciting: variants. Every hero comes with a character card usually referred to as “the base version” by the game fandom. But (at least in the core set of heroes) each hero also has a set of alternate character cards that can be used in place of the base version called variants. Many heroes only have one but at least one (Bunker) has 5 variants (admittedly I think part of that was attempts to “fix” Bunker who is seen as one of the clunkiest heroes in the base game).

These variants can represent anything, versions of that hero from another universe, versions of that hero from different points in their storyline, or even versions of that hero from what-if-style stories. Hell, the Cauldron released a set of Halloween-themed variants for several of their heroes in 2020.

With this in mind, let’s run down the list of our heroes and what I have in mind for them, variants-wise. Several of these have themes that I’ll talk about at the end but I’m sure you’ll pick up on them on your own.

Base Set

Charade

Menagerie Charade: Charade as part of the Menagerie, going into the final battle with Clockwork.

MIA Charade: Charade as leader of the MIA. Probably more focused on team leading than damage.

Secret Origin: Alycia Chin: Alycia on the run from AEGIS/the Division before becoming Charade.

Concord

Menagerie Concord: Concord as part of the Menagerie, going into the final battle with Clockwork.

Keynome Kid: Teen Adam from the Keynome storyline (but needs a new name).

Kid Concord: Concord before he had the adult super form and also early in his run, so probably a lot more spotty than normal Concord.

Ghost Girl

Menagerie Ghost Girl: Ghost Girl as part of the Menagerie, going into the final battle with Clockwork.

Ghost Girl Pandemonium: Ghost Girl from the Quillverse who became Pandemonium.

Ghost Girl, Spirit of the Solstice: (already done) Ghost Girl with the Solstice Candle.

Magus Ghost Girl: (already done) Charlotte as the Magus.

Mercury

Menagerie Mercury: Mercury as part of the Menagerie, going into the final battle with Clockwork.

Quillverse Mercury: Older Mercury who was trapped in the bubble from the Quillverse. Not super excited about this one, but it was the only thing I could come up with for Harry.

Radiance

Menagerie Radiance: Radiance as part of the Menagerie, going into the final battle with Clockwork.

Secret Origin: Numina: Holographic Summer action as team overwatch.

Princess Radiance: (already done) Radiance in the role of Princess of the Fairy Kingdoms.

Tech Support

Jason Quill

Boy Adventurer Jason Quill: Young Jason, not as experienced but makes up for it with zeal.

Quillverse Jason Quill: A repentant adult Jason with the Quillverse after Leo reintroduced himself to himself.

Link, Otto, and Pnuma

I haven’t thought too hard about these because I’m still trying to decide how interconnected these need to be, but at least one thought is that Big Bill and Mo could be variants of Otto, but that is a very early idea. Also if Link is his own character and not part of a shared deck with Pneuma, I’m sure berserker Link from phase three will probably be one of his variants.

MIA

Agent R

MIA Agent R: Nono as a member of the MIA.

Comrade X

MIA Comrade X: Alex as a member of the MIA.

Secret Origins: Agent 1337: Alex during their time with AEGIS/the Division.

Firebrand

MIA Firebrand: Emma as a member of the MIA.

Secret Origins: Hot Mess: Emma as an anti-villain in training.

SNOWMAN

MIA SNOWMAN: John as a member of the MIA.

ASIST

A10

Irregulators A10: Andi as a member of the Irregulators.

Alloy

Irregulators Alloy: Alloy as a member of the Irregulators.

Armiger

Irregulators Armiger: Will as a member of the Irregulators.

La Cordera

Secret Origins: Superchica: Keri while she still had the ‘tude.

Telekinetian

Irregulators Telekinetian: Nate as a member of the Irregulators.

Megaverse

Princess Peri

I don’t know for her yet. Still super early days here.

Space Bug

Halloween Space Bug: Space Bug cosplaying as Ash from the Evil Dead. Who gave that Moth a chainsaw and boomstick?!

So broad strokes on some of the themed variants.

Team Variants: (Menagerie, MIA, Irregulators) Exactly what it says on the tin. Variants with powers that make them work much better on their team than normal or makes them slot more into the role they played in that team (for example, Menagerie Charade is a loner, MIA Charade is a leader).
Secret Origins: These are callbacks to the hero’s previous heroic/villainous/etc identity.
Holiday Themes: Ghost Girl has Christmas and Space Bug has Halloween. I’m sure we can fit a few more in (or just throw in more Halloween themed ones because those are always fun).

I’m sure I’ve missed some obvious ones, but what are your thoughts on this?

garrett · January 20, 2023, 12:20pm

Independence Day kid icon Mercury!

If variants can include ancestors, Manny sailed under a “Captain Quill” on a round-the-world voyage of adventure, and that name isn’t a coincidence.

Dave · January 20, 2023, 4:44pm

All sound appropriate.

Not sure how this works in the context you have, but when we talk about Variant in terms of timeline alternatives, then there’s certainly room for an out-and-out villainous Charade – “Father’s Daughter” (while Chin was still alive, spy/assassin; some overlap with Secret Origins version) and “Heir To Chin” (the commander of many mooks, though not above getting her hands dirty).

Young Jason should have crazy things happen around him, too – almost becoming his cartoon character alternate, including his dog being suspiciously intelligent. Also, we need a generic “Deus ex Patriae” kind of card where Jason gets some sort of defense or rescue from some gadget from his dad.

Not sure what the Quillverse version would look like here. Riffing off the villain side of thing, Quillverse Quill would make a good one – the tired villainous mastermind who thinks himself a misunderstood hero, not realizing how far he’s fallen; controls a lot of resources and tech, but vulnerable to psychic attack (hmmm, maybe can also invoke powerful sub-villains but then strikes against them, too).

Overall, I think this all sounds good!

insomn14 · January 21, 2023, 2:57am

Yeah, I think the Secret Origins variant (as planned) has enough overlap with those ideas that, while they wouldn’t be superfluous, they at least would muddy the waters on the “variant of Alycia when she was still a baddie” theme. Though if I could fit in a villain variant of Alycia being in place of say Pyrrhus, I think that might have some legs.

Young Jason
Helicopter Parent (power): < add in some overprotective effect later >

I see someone has been snooping through my notes of the Quillverse Jason villain.

Expanding on this, I was planning on a lot of this: Jason waiting in the wings, masterminding things while his minions do the heavy lifting. From the game, we already have (a somehow brought to heel) ~~Sablestar~~ Enora Dralis and a gem man named Fracture whose abilities greatly resemble Fractal’s to the point I think at least I if not other speculated that they were derived from her, because let’s throw human experimentation on top of everything else Evil Jason has done. I’m sure we can come up with a couple more to round out his entourage (especially if Bill thinks D-SOL-8 might have been under the employ of Jason before coming to our present).

Quillverse Jason is definitely one of the villains I’m most looking forward to designing, though I will need to be smart about it because while there are thematic differences between Quillverse Jason, Clockwork, and Pyrrhus, it would be really easy to make all of them similar from a mechanics standpoint.

I know you’re probably kidding but it’d be tempting just to write out the events of Harry stopping cattle rustlers in Wyoming for the bio.

They certainly can and it could be appropriate, depending on how the story with Charlotte goes.

Hmm, it could also be interesting to do a whole set of Time War (or some otherwise temporally themed) variants to include versions of characters from different timelines and eras, like Captain Quill for Jason, Magus ~~Max Galliard~~ Milo Lum for Ghost Girl, and probably others. We’ll put a pin in that one for now.

garrett · January 21, 2023, 3:34am

Not employment per se but they very definitely know each other.

I’m actually not! Independence Day Harry as a variant takes a more inspirational angle, Harry as icon and folk hero encouraging other people through his presence. He’s explicitly undertaking a non-“superhero” activity (charity) but happens to be using his powers along the way.

garrett · January 21, 2023, 9:30pm

Setting aside what Sablestar was getting from Jason and Rook (hint: access to the Sepiaverse), Enora Dralis is actually a separate character, and the Megaverse crew is going to meet her

insomn14 · January 21, 2023, 9:34pm

Huh, I thought I had asked about if that was the same character or a separate one in the past, but I guess I just assumed it. Now I got to come up with replacement name for her since she’s coming up in Concord’s deck.

Dave · January 26, 2023, 4:30am

Alycia definitely has better legs.

Obviously, young Jason doing something while Byron hovers overhead with a helicopter backpack (in lieu of a jetpack).

For Science!

Er, for Order!

Uh … for fuck’s sake, someone has to save the world and if it’s gonna be me then get off my goddamned back!

While mechanics diversity is important, significantly different story can make a big difference, too, and mask a multitude of underlying similarity.

I think we are all there.

insomn14 · January 27, 2023, 5:43am

So Mercury’s deck is nearly mechanical completion, so I think it’s time to make sure all the cards feel right. To that end, here is the Mercury hero deck as it stands now.

As you no doubt can see, some of these I have very strong mental images for (namely any card that has all three of the Theme and Flavor, Image, and Quotes columns filled out) but just as many I’m struggling to come up with a good way to differentiate them (I’m looking at you Annoying Barrage and Quick Hits). Also, I do not put it past myself to have missed an obvious name for a card (though it’s also possible that the obvious name was already taken by another card name in the base game), so feel free to recommend names as well as themes, image ideas, and quotes. I try to get the cards to be approximately 50% from the game, 25% from post-game stuff, and 25% from stuff I just made up and sound cool, but these are not hard numbers and I’ll jump around to whatever makes the most coherent overall deck experience (which I seem to be succeeding on because people have very strong understandings of who Charade, Ghost Girl, Radiance, and Unmute are).

One notable omission is Uncle Comet’s trick, which Harry used a couple time throughout the game. That is a card idea I tried to get to work so many times throughout the versions of Mercury’s deck but it just wouldn’t in a way that made sense or played well. That said, it’s probably going to end up being the basis for one of Mercury’s variant powers (possibly Menagerie Mercury) so don’t fret too much about that.

garrett · January 27, 2023, 5:59am

Devil’s Shadow Hands style:

An endless flurry of attacks that aren’t intended to connect, but need to be dealt with anyway - and can leave the defender flailing once the attacker withdraws.

The ultimate “I’m not touching you!” move - a distraction that leaves the defender exhausted.

insomn14 · February 6, 2023, 3:11pm

After far too long, I have completed the Netherwarden’s deck art. Now I just need to go through all the standard bits and bobs: run this by the proofreading team, get it over to my digital programmer, and finish writing the necromancer’s bio and flavor dialogue for digital.

In retrospect, this was probably the hardest deck to complete because I was already done with the deck when they were Ghostheart. All too often I was taking artwork I has perfectly happy with and just redrawing it, retreading old ground and not always being happy with the newer version.

But now it’s done and I can move on to new things like Mercury and Concord.

I would ask if anyone has interest or time to give a look over the quotes at the bottom of the cards to double check me to make sure everything sounds like the necromancer we all… pity and tolerate.

garrett · February 6, 2023, 3:22pm

Those quotes are super duper spicy. A+

Literally the only one that doesn’t give me any kind of vibe is Aspect of the Gatekeeper. I dunno if it’s too late to suggest alternatives, but in the interest of feedback, that’s mine.

insomn14 · February 6, 2023, 3:24pm

Wouldn’t have asked for assistance if it was already too late.

Yeah, that is probably the most utilitarian quote, just reinforcing what the artwork is showing us, so if you have ideas feel free to make recommendations.